1854 (Age 61) Woźny przy Sądzie Pokoju Okręgu Zgierskiego Zgierz, Łódzkie, Polska
Residence
1865 (Age 72) Zgierz, Łódzkie, Polska
Death
29 September 1866 - godz. 12.00 w południe (Age 73) Łodź, Łódzkie, Polska
Note: Zgon zgłosili Józef Magnuski, l. 42, obrońca sądowy, syn zmarłego i Władysław Pomorski, l. 29. Według aktu zgonu zmarły był synem Józefa i Agnieszki ( błąd)
Is this the same person as Tadeusz Magnucki (I1725) ? Probably not. Two marriages about the same time.
Note
For me equally intriguing is what made Tadeusz leave Warsaw and settle in a tiny village of Byszew in Leczyca district. Did he get an education in agriculture? I doubt because his marriage entry does not mention that he was a land owner or of similar profession Was he a miller? Rather not because it would be unlikely that a mayor of Grabkowo would be a witness to a marriage of a miller. He is only addressed in the entry Generosus meaning from nobility The only thing we know is that area was inhabited by Magnuskis from nobility. If you asked me I would rather expect that he was invited to that area by a relative to live with him for a time or for some other opportunity which could have been that girl whom he married. I doubt Tadeusz in Warsaw would even know of a tiny village of Byszew if there were not some kind of connection there.
Robert
Note
Lets make some review of what is currently known about Tadeusz Magnuski as contained in two data bases : geneteka, magnuski/ ged and my research in Plock Archive. Examined will be facts, errors/false statements, gaps ( luki). Finally let's see if anyconclussions can be drawn based on analysis :
Facts:
There are few Tadeusz Magnuskis in /ged. One belongs to my line , two were born in XX c, another got married to Tekla Nowicka. Considering period of the search only 2 can be taken in consideration : Anynomous Tadeusz Magnuski husband of Anastazja Skonieczny born about 1800 and Taduesz Magnuski s. of Jozef and Jadwiga born in Gralewo in 1792. Untill two days ago there was no single Tadeusz Magnuski in geneteka except marriage of Taduesz Magnuski and unknown by first name girl b named Olczak girl in Byszew.
Few years later after birth of T. Magnuski in Gralewo Jozef and Jadwiga moved their family to Warsaw. Both passed away in Warsaw. Some of their children got married in Warsaw,and run their families in Warsaw. Quite many of their descendants can be tracked down in /ged till the XX c. Nothing is known about Tadeusz. The records of Warsaw as available by now did not list his marriage, death and no single birth of his posterity. If he got married and had at least one son the family name might have been be carried through at least some years.
1826, Byszew, Grabow. Place located several miles from Zgierz and Lodz.
Marriage of a certain Taduesz Magnuski is listed on the marriage records. It reads :
"... marriage of Tadeusz Magnuski, of nobility, citizen in Byszew, age 70, son of Jozef and Jadwiga both living in Warsaw, already deceased and .... ( priest mised noting her given name) , daughter of Teofila and Kazimierz and then follows her family name that is unclear because the line from verse above crosses it. However it consists of 7-8 letters and has typical suffix for Polish " ow" - it's in genetive.In nomintive that name would be noted " er". Prior to "ow" they are e and r thus only 2-3 letters are not clear on the beginning of the name. When closely examined it could read - Alszer, Olszer, Alner, Olner but not Olczak as in geneteka because the order of letterss misses " k" The marriage entry follows that she was 28, her parents already deceased, born and living in Byszew and that she was a virgin.
What is false here ? I guess this Tadeusz would be more than happy that a 28 years old girl married a man of 70.
How did the priest known the names of bride and groom's parents and that parents of Taduesz were living in Warsaw ? Of course from them. If that Tadeusz is the son of Jozef and Jadwiga Sobierajska then the statement they were both deceasead is false because they were still alived in 1826 but they were not present at the marriage ceremony. If Tadeusz were really 70 why the entry misses his civil status ? It can can be assumed he was widower.
The records in Byszew as avalable now mentions Taduesz Magnuski only once at his marriage . No children were born there and not his/ her death is noted. If he were 70 his death would be a matter of 5-10 years and it would quite likely be followed by second marriage of his young wife by name of Magnuska. To me the age of tadeusz at his marriage is obvious false. Then why there was not even a single child born to this family ?
1830, Zgierz
a birth record of Antonina Jozefa Magnuska is listed. Her parents are Tadeusz Magnuski, citizen of Zgierz, age 37 ( that would make his birth in about 1793 if correct) and Anastazya Celmaroska, age 36 ( birth about 1794 if correct)
If she was the one from Byszew she would need to be 31-2 but if Tadeusz was stated 70 how accurate his wife's age was ?
Now, if indexer did not miss any more birth to that couple there were no more children in that family till 1861 . Till that year there are yearly indices of Zgierz posted in geneteka. That couple is also not found anywhere else on records.
1854, Strykow near Zgierz and Lodz
Marriage of Jozef Julian Magnuski to Ludwika Pomorska a woman born and living in Strykow.The entry reads :
"... marriage of JJ Magnuski, born in Byszew, an advocate by the Court of Peace in Zgierz, age 30 , son of Tadeusz and Anastazya Skonieczny both living.
A year later their in 1855 in Zgierz their only child is born Wladyslaw Piotr. He will became an engineer, specialist in consttruction engineering, an expert quoted in newspaers. At his later years a proffessor at Politechnika Warszawska living 2 min away from Politechnika at st. Lwowska 8 in Warsaw. Passes away in 1923 . Few months after giving birth to Wladyslaw P his mother passes away in 1855.
1856, Lodz
Second marriage of Jozef Julian Magnuski. he married Teofila Agnieszka Gruszczynska from nobility, daughter of a landlord. She was born and lived in Lodz. The entry reads :
"... marriage of Jozef Julian Magnuski, widower, age 32, born in Byszew of Grabow parish, an advocate by the Court of Piece in Zgierz, son of living parents Taduesz and Agnieszka Konieczny ( this time his mother was noted as Konieczny not Skonieczny)
What is significant about JJ in those 2 records :
- names of his parents that are quite alike despite minor change in mother's given name - his consistent age -30 / 32 - his birthplace Byszew, Grabno - his work and living in Zgierz
JJ and Teofila start running the family life. Thei children are born in Zgierz one after another.
Last thing characteristic to 2 marriages of JJ is that both state his parents being alived.
Let's give a closer look to JJ birth information. Both marriage entries list his birthpalce as Byszew. The second one is more specified, it reads Byszew of parish of Grabno. In 1854 he was 30 while marriage entry to Teofila in 1856 makes him 32. His mother was referred to as Anastazya Skonieczny or Konieczny.
In the light of that he was born in 1824 or 1823 depending on whether he turned 30 or was in his 30 year of life. The problem with this birth is that all records from 1823-1825 in Byszew are missing . ( if there were not all about that family would be very simple, black and white). JJ was born 2 or 3 years prior to the marriage of Tadeusz that was held in 1826. ( Just in case I checked birth records from 1826-31 to make sure he was not born after Tadeusz got married. He was not.)
What does it mean ? Options :
1. Jozef Julian was born of not Tadeusz who got married in 1826 but of another one
2. Tadeusz Magnuski at his marriage in 1826 was a widower/ the entry missis his civil status
3. Jozef Julian was born out of wedlock
One of the options must be true. But which ? Let's keep going.
Since JJ marriage entries stated his parents were alived till at least 1856 and records from Zgierz were indexed till 1861 I started looking for possible death records of Tadeusz and Anastazya from 1862
1865, Zgierz
Death of Anastazya Magnuska ( attachment). It reads :
"... at 7 pm passed away Anastazya Magnuska, wife of a court usher at the Court of Piece in Zgierz, age 68, born in Czerwinsk of uknown parents. She left her husband Tadeusz Magnuski.."
let's put her death entry down to pieces : Her age at death matches the age of a wife of Taduesz from his marriage in 1826 in Byszew. Names of her parents are unknown and her birthplace is Czerwinsk while the marriage entry in 1826 stated that the wife of Tadeusz was born and living in Byszew. Her husband's proffession is now referred to as an usher at the Court of Peace in Zgierz. Sounds familiar doesn't it ? The birth record of Antonina Jozefa in 1830 stated that her father Tadeusz was 38 and a citizen. Citizen is a very general meaning but it means that citizen was not a lanlord, peasant or a craftsman. At 38 Tadeusz is not referred to as having a specific proffession but at about 72 he was refferred to as an court usher. Of course it does not mean that he was proffessioanlly active at the time of death of his wife but still sounds kind of untypical unless he was backed by someone to get that position. ( usually carriers do not start at age of 38 or after). The only person I can think of that could help Tadeusz with the job at the Court of Peace in Zgierz was JJ.
Now was the time to look for his death to see what info it would bring. Zgierz was most obvious place but not the only one if JJ is involved. Joseph Julian was a patriot. In 1862 he is found a member of conspiracy. He joined a secret organization that was involved in preparing military uprising against Russia in the Zgierz area in 1863. At the head of this organization is Wladyslaw Pomorski. This Uprising is called in Polish history as January Uprisig of 1863. The insurgents were defeated in 1864 and Russians started to opress participants and their families. Many Poles were sent to Siberia to get imprisoned. JJ must have been worried. he had a family that he was responsible for and nedeed to protect. (By the way, several years later very unexpected thing happens in his family. His daugher marries an influential Russian baron from Piotrkow and she becomes baroness Otmarsztejn. Daughter of a Polish patriot marries a Russian ? how come !)
After 1863 JJ is never heard of in Zgierz. Polish newspapers from 1930ies mention Jozef Julian Magnuski as one of the first lawyers and advocates in Lodz. He is referred to in newspapers many times.
In search of Tadeusz death I kept going over death records in Zgierz till 1885 before I gave up. At that year Tadeusz who was 38 in 1830 when Antonina was born would have been 93. Logically the next parish to look for his death was Lodz.
1866, Lodz
Death of Tadeusz Magnuski ( attacment). The entry is most interesting :
".... came Jozef Magnuski, age 42, son of the deceased, an advocate, and reported that yesterday at 12 midday passed away Tadeusz Magnuski, widower, son of the deceased Jozef and Agnieszka, age 68 of unknown place of birth....." Another witness was Wladyslaw Pomorski.
A renowned advocate JJ Magnuski moves from Lodz to his comfortable house in Piaski in Oszkowice parish. He dies in 1890. His wife Teofila is a widow but she is not alone. Their son Wladyslaw Piotr marries Konstancja Sawicka in Piaski and starts running his faily life over there.
To get all summarized :
Each single entry in this story has correct and incorrect information and misses important information: name of wife, names of parents, places of births, etc. Fortunately each one provided enough correct information to draw conclusions and proceed with searching for more information, more entries.
I guess you understand now why I was so excited yesterday that I could barely eat or sleep. To some extent I understood what scolars and discoveres felt when the made a discovery or invent.
Note
1826, Byszew in Grabow parish
Marriage of Tadeusz Magnuski
Tadeusz is read to be the son of Jozef & Jadwiga. Jozef is the most popular male’s name in those times and is found in almost every family. Jadwiga is less popular but also frequently used. However the entry is more specific and precisely reads their place of residence before 1826 – Warsaw. How many couples of Tadeusz & Jadwiga Magnuski are found in Warsaw or entire central Poland in geneteka or ged living before 1826 ? Just one.
His wife is read of being 28. Even if that age is not accurate it gives an idea of how old she was. It reads she was a virgin. Is a woman in her 30ies physically capable of delivering children ? Does she want to have children ? No doubt.
The records in Grabno parish does not contain a single birth, marriage or death of any Magnuski till from 1826 -1875 except that marriage .
4 years later 1830, Zgierz
Antonina is born to Tadeusz Magnuski & Anastazya Celmaroska. The entry is as complete as the birth entry could be. It has full names of parents and their age. Tadeusz and Anastazya are read to be almost at their 40 ties. They are no longer young but they are not old too. They could still have children and live quite many years.
Again the records do not contain any other Taduesz Magnuski till 1885 and have just one record of of a woman named Anastazja Magnuska- her death record.
24 years later: 1854, Strykow
Jozef J Magnuski enters into his first marriage. He is read to be the son of Tadeusz and Anastazja Skonieczny. The entry reads that his parents are still alive. This statement means 2 things : possible sibling of Jozef J are to be looked for in the past but deaths of his parents are to be looked for in the future.
1856, Lodz
JJ enters into his second marriage. Again he is read to be the son of Taduesz and Anastazja this time Konieczny. The entry has two changes against the the one from 1854. It is more précised on two aspects: It reads again that he was born in Byszew but identifies the parish too – Grabow. It’s important information because there is one more Byszew just several miles away but in Witonia parish. The other detail refers to his parents. Again it states they are alive but provides they are living in Zgierz. Thus no doubt when that couple resided in
Again records from Zgierz till 1885 do not list any other Jozef Magnuski nor Teofila Magnuska
9 years later -- 1865, Zgierz
Anastazja Magnuska passes away. Her age at death, 68 matches in general the age of Anastazja the mother of Antonina in 1830 and unknown by name wife of Tadeusz from 1826.
No matter which record she is always to be born at the end of the XVIII c. The entry names her husband: Tadeusz , usher at the peace court. Where ? in Zgierz.
1 year later -- 1866, Lodz
Tadeusz Magnuski passes away. Death reported by his son Jozef, an advocate. He is said to be a widower at age 66. Jozef is read to be 42. This age exactly matches age of Jozef husband of Ludwika Pomorska and Teofila Gruszczynska. Second witness to the death is Wladyslaw Pomorski.
Conclusions :
In the light of all available information let’s examine what are “ pros” and ” against” Joseph Julian was the son of Tadeusz Magnuski who got married in 1826 in Byszew.
AGAINST:
- Based on his cosistent age at 3 records Jozef was born in about 1824 which is 2 years prior to the marriage of Tadeusz.
- Consequently his mother’s maiden name reads Skonieczny or Konieczny
- The name Skonieczny or Konieczny is in no way close to Celmer, Celmarowska or Alszer, Alner etc
- His marriage records state his parents be alive till at least his second marriage in 1856 thus Taduesz could not have been widower in 1830 when his daughter was born from Anastazja Celmarowska
- Both marriage records state he was born in Byszew which is where Tadeusz was said to be living and getting married in 1826
- If he turned 29 and was in his 30 year of life in 1854 when he first got married he
would have been born in 1825. If he was born in at the end of that year the woman who married Tadeusz would still be in pregnancy in Sep 1826 when he got married.
- Both marriage records consequently state that his father’s name was Tadeusz and his mother’s name Anastazja
- At both marriages he is said to be working in Zgierz. His first son is born in Zgierz despite marriage was held in Strykow. His first wife died in Zgierz. His second marriage states that he was not only working in Zgierz but was living in Zgierz too and that’s where his children were born
- Taduesz is read to be the court usher in Zgierz
- Zgierz is a place when Antonina was born of tadeusz and anastazja and when anastazja died living her husband taduesz a widower
- He was read to be the son at the Taduesz death. No surprise because his marriage records and death record stated that he was son of Taduesz
- There were only one Tadeusz and Anastazja on records in Zgierz and Byszew
Now let’s examine whether Tadeusz might be considered a son of Jozef and Jadwiga Sobierajska
AGAINST:
- his age at death makes his birth at 1800 and he was born in 1792
- at death his mother’s name was read Agnieszka
PROS:
- his marriage record reads names of his parents Jozef and Jadwiga and place of residence – Warsaw
- his age at birth of Antonia in 1830 exactly matches his birth date
- at death his father’s name is Jozef
- his death record does not state his birthplace despite his son must have known that his father was living in Warsaw for while. Despite of this he did not say to the priest his father was born in Warsaw. He must know that he was not nor that he was born in Byszew
What else could be done to have documented proof considering lack of records from Byszew from 1823-1825. Fortunately two things. One is the marriage in Strykow. Because he was not from Strykow he must have produced to the priest in Strykow his birth certificate. It was recorded in special register named alegata in Latin. In the National Archive in Lodz there are alegats from Strykow from 1854. If they are complete they would contain birth record of JJ.
The geneteka records are contain records from the national archive . However there were 3 copies of vital records. The one from Grabow is also at the Diocese Archive. Grabow records are in the Diocese Archive in Lowicz. The question is whether the copies of those 3 years survived in that archive.
Note
Hank,
This is about Tadeusz Józef Honorat Magnuski (I2207) son of Józef and Jadwiga Sobierajska born in Gralewo in 1792. Attached is a document from the Register of Population of the II District of the City of Łódź from 1864. It is a missing link or as you like to call it a "smoking gun" regarding his identity, names of parents, place of birth, profession etc.
This is a type of a document Janusz Magnuski was trying to find to prove that you are quite closely related. Attached is a scan of the title page of the register as well as the pages on entire Magnuski family that was listed as constant citizens of the city of Łódź.
From the top to the bottom Magnuski pages list the following names ( from the left).
31. Józef Magnuski son of Tadeusz and Anastazja Skonieczna 32 Teofila Magnuska z Gruszczyńskich / Józef's wife 33. Władysław Piotr Magnuski 34 Maryanna Magnuska 35 Witold Magnuski 36 Dionizy Edward Magnuski 37 Józefa Magnuska 38. Zofia Magnuska 39 TADEUSZ MAGNUSKI 40. Irrelevant / Augusta Albertyna Wajnert
Let's look at the entry that reads Tadeusz Magnuski :
(Inline image)
On the left it reads his name/ surname The next column reads names of his parents : Józef and Jadwiga Next one lists his date and place of birth : 28 Paźdz ( Oct) 1791 / this is a slight mistake because he was born on the 29 Oct 1792 /
(Inline image)
And where he was born : W. Gralewo , Gub Płocka / Village Gralewo Gubernorate of Płock The next one reads his civil status : Widower / this is not true because Anastazja passed away in 1865. But the entry of Tadeusz is written with a different hand and ink than other entries, most likely it was noted later when Anastazja was already deceased in Zgierz . With his son Józef ( top entry), the column on the far right titled Remarks reads he passed away in 1890 in Oszkowice. This means some supplementary of information was noted later. How could they know in 1864 that he would die in 1890 in Oszkowice ? Next one reads his status : from village Then his religion : catholic Then his occupation : beadle of the court Previous place of residence : M.Zgierz / City of Zgierz The last on the right reads : Based on nomination of the Chairman of the Civil Tribunal of the Warsaw Gubernorate issued in Warsaw on the 18/30 July 1843 # 5252 This refers nomination of Tadeusz to be a beadle.
To summarize :
The page lists one Magnuski family beginning from Tadeusz son of Józef and Jadwiga Sobierajska, then his son Józef and his wife Teofila Gruszczynska and the children : Władysław , Maryanna, Witold, Dionizy, Józefa, Zofia. Władysław was born of Józef's first wife - Ludwika Pomorska- it is correctly noted with his entry.
This is no surprise, it was known years ago as soon as the marriage record of Tadeusz was brought up on genealodzy.pl but unfortunately both marriage entry and his death entry in 1866 in Łódź had some mistakes. Now Tadeusz's identity and origin it is not just a matter of logical conclusions based on the substance noted in vital records but also proved with a separate document.
Robert Magnuski (via email dated 2022-11-02 to H. S. Magnuski)
Birth
Akt 32 Rok 1792 in Gralewo, Raciąż, płoński, Mazowieckie, Polska
Gralewo: 52,715160 20,117886
Death of spouse
Zgon nastąpił w 1825 r po urodzeniu syna Józefa Juliana w Byszewie , par. Grabów. Akta Zgonów z 1825 r nie zachowały się. W 1826 r owdowiały mąż poślubił Anastazję Celmer także w Byszewie par. Grabów
Zgon zgłosili Józef Gibki i Łukasz Gibki, lat 68 obaj mieszkańcy Zgierza
Death
Zgon zgłosili Józef Magnuski, l. 42, obrońca sądowy, syn zmarłego i Władysław Pomorski, l. 29. Według aktu zgonu zmarły był synem Józefa i Agnieszki ( błąd)
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Sources
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Media
Multimedia Object
Register of population of the city of Lodz District II from 1864-Magnuski-Tadeusz (M2496) Type: Document
Multimedia Object
Register of population of the city of Lodz District II from 1864 - Magnuscy (M2495) Type: Document
Multimedia Object
Register of population of the city of Lodz District II from 1864 (M2494) Type: Document
Multimedia Object
Register of population of the city of Lodz District II from 1864-Magnuski-Tadeusz-detail (M2497) Type: Document
Birthabout 17482525 Ostrzeszów, Ostrzeszów, ostrzeszowski, wielkopolskie, Polska Death5 August 1838 (Age 90) Warszawa Wola, Warszawa, Warszawa, Mazowieckie, Polska
Birth8 September 17974939 Gralewo, Raciąż, płoński, Mazowieckie, Polska Death7 November 1797 (Age 60 days) Gralewo, Raciąż, płoński, Mazowieckie, Polska
Birth25 August 18303732 Zgierz, Zgierz, zgierski, Łódzkie, Polska Death8 August 1866 (Age 35) Warszawa - par. św Jana, Warszawa, Warszawa, Mazowieckie, Polska
Individuals
34
(Birth)
4 months
